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| Maybe I'm the first to say I'm not thrilled... :( |
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 12:51:02 PM durch Ghubonamin |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Damir00: |
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zitierte Meldung: The root concern here is not about DT's 12-month plan forcing psuedo-exclusivity on DT contributors - the concern is that DT's plan will force people to abandon other microstocks.
It is not only possible, but quite likely that
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For seven uploads you have a big mouth. Nobody knows about the future of the agency you are naming. I have doubts that they will force exclusivity it would be a too big risk for them. |
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Several Compactcameras and two DSLRs
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 1714 | Gesamtverkäufe: 7450
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/16/2006, 13:00:25 PM durch Damir00 |
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...you have a big mouth.
I trust DT considers this an inappropriate and grossly unprofessional way to discuss things...
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A large wooden box with a tiny little hole.
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 7
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/16/2006, 13:02:05 PM durch Ghubonamin |
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sorry eight uploads.
Its clear why DT is doing this but i don't see any reason to discuss that another Agency is maybe going to do on their forums and spread unneccesary paranoia amongst the contributors. Try to discuss this on the forum on the Agency you named and don't forget to write DREAMSTIME in big letters. |
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Several Compactcameras and two DSLRs
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 1714 | Gesamtverkäufe: 7450
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 13:21:32 PM durch Kineticimagery |
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From an earlier post:
“Nobody will buy the image just because he or she likes it, he will buy it when he needs it. Maybe he needs an image sometimes, he will go back to Dreamstime, look for an image, but since the 3 months have passed, the image will not be available anymore...”
If you’re spending $100 –$300 for an image, this is understandable, but $1-3 for an image? I just don’t see how that’s an issue.
“I'm not quite so concerned about another site demanding exclusivity and having to give up on them because of a one year DT commitment. It could happen, but I have doubts that it will. My concern is with the one-sided nature of this commitment. What exactly is DT committing to? Will it guarantee not to lower prices or payouts during that term? Will it guarantee not to offer free images (like another site did) in competition with our work? Will it guarantee a level of marketing activity to draw in buyers? Will it guarantee not to be acquired by another firm who might change the contract terms?"
Very good point indeed.
My 2 cents.
Dreamstime is my favorite of the microstock sites, for me their acceptance ratio of my images is great, their high commission is great, the ease of use of their site is great, the new site is awesome, their new pricing is generous, I’m excited, I really like this companny! Unfortunately this 12 month issue could be a deal buster. A lot can happen in one year and because many contributors treat microstock as either a full time business, or a substantial addition to their income, diversification and control of their intellectual property is a must. I know I want to be able to remove my images if need be depending on a variety of reasons, not least of which is what ******** does. I wish IS wasn't my biggest earner, but they are. But ******** isn’t the only reason, I’m putting out feelers for traditional agencies, contacting many such as Getty, Jupiter, Corbis, and others. I’m trying out different stock models such as Alamy, Image Vortex, totally photos, Photo Direct and my own marketing. I have hundreds of images in the shoot ready to upload and I feel losing control of them for 12 months is too long. Three, perhaps six is ok, but 12, I just don’t know. I did have an image that was licensed for traditional pricing, quite a sum, and had to remove it from all the micros and ******** initially balked because it hadn’t been up for three months, that put an end to me uploading there. This is a worry. We need to be assured at the very least, that if we decide to jump ship, so to speak, we can terminate our relationship with DT, delete our entire portfolio, if we choose and know that our images will not have to run their 12 month course before being removed. I hope that doesn't become an option, I'd prefer to stay here with DT, but business is business.
-D
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 1630 | Gesamtverkäufe: 7534
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 13:34:13 PM durch Zinchik |
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I must say that I am very conserned about imposed 12 month lock on the images. I think that unless it's modified to the more flexible time I will be forced not to upload after March 15 at all.
I may agree on 12 month lock on selective files as it's done in F-ia, or shorter lock time. But it makes me very uncomfortable to give up all my files for 12 month.
This is my 2 cents. |
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Nikon CP5000
Nikon D70
Canon s400
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 708 | Gesamtverkäufe: 2728
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 14:17:46 PM durch Sophieso |
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Please read the post and the discussion. It has been requested that other sites not be mentioned by name here.
And once again......Do not be rude to your fellow members. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 268 | Gesamtverkäufe: 833
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/16/2006, 17:28:22 PM durch Jorr |
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I don't think it's reasonable to object to keeping images on Dreamstime for 12 months because you might want to become exclusive at ******** or they might make it compulsory sometime in the future and you might not be able to remove your images.
If ******** make it compulsory to go exclusive (and there is nothing to suggest they will) then that is a situation created by them. To try and make other sites pay for the consequences (or indeed cover your back) for what a particular site might or might not do on some future date is unreasonable and the staff at Dreamstime deserve more respect than this.
Like probably most people I don't want to have to commit images to Dreamstime for a year as no-one can say just what is going to happen in microstock over the next year or two and I would like to retain as much freedom as I possibly can to use my images as I wish. That also means not going exclusive anywhere.
Surely some compromise can be reached.
Edited to add that it has been posted on the microstock forum that the site in question has no plans to impose exclusivity on contributors. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 119 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1058
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 16:07:01 PM durch Asist |
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12 months is too much. 6 monts is much more reasonable for both photographers, designers and Dreamstime.
Things are changing too fast for a 12 months commitment at the moment. Things might look different in a year or two, but for the moment, 12 monts is not fair on the photographers.
Dreamstime is reciving a commmision when selling uour images, that their payment for doing that.
When locking our images for as mush as 12 months, I think we are entering terms normally seen on the high priced stock sites, but DT is a microsite...
So even with higher payout 12 months does not compute....
I suggest 6 months as a compromise that everybode should be able to agree upon.
Thanks.
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Nikon D-200 with assortment of lenses
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 467 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1524
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/16/2006, 19:51:36 PM durch Marcopolo |
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I will add my .02 here-I have nothing new to add that has not been said already, but I agree that 3 months is a much more reasonable time period. This is also a long enough time to stop most of the problems that Dreamstime is having with people pulling down images after a few days.
I submit to another micro site that asks for a 3 month commitement, and although I would like to not have to commit to this if given a choice, 3 months is a time period I can agree to and I continue to upload there. However, 12 months is just too long of a commitement and I will have to give serious consideration to no longer uploading here after that policy is in place. I am getting good sales here and I do not want to have to make this choice. |
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Nikon D50, D300, Nikon 8008s, various lenses
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 2176 | Gesamtverkäufe: 4716
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/17/2006, 00:27:43 AM durch Dennist1 |
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Personally, I would prefer to retain the flexibility but hope I would never need to use it. As far as the concerns about forced exclusivity at the *other* site, that would be the end of my uploads there, or anywhere else that tried it for that matter. I can't understand the math of going exclusive anywhere. The 'big 3' sites are essentially equal for me on sales, so the exclusivity bonus would have to triple my earning just to break even. So, for me at least, thats not an issue.
A clause permitting option of account closure with any change to the TOS; and the option mentioned of single image deletion thru support would fix the situation for me.
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Canon Digital SLR, 30D, 300D. 17-85 F4; 70-200 2.8L, many ot...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 366 | Gesamtverkäufe: 803
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/17/2006, 04:31:33 AM durch Godfer |
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I see that designers are worried about the 3 month issue, beacause they think that when they come back to buy the photo they wanted, that it wouldnt still be there. None of us are saying we want to withdraw our photos in 3 months, we are just saying that we would like the freedom to do so. I have no intantions at the moment of going exclusive anywhere but we just dont know the future. It is not just 12 months from march, it is 12 months from your last upload!!!!!!! |
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Canon 5D MK II
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 910 | Gesamtverkäufe: 13951
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/17/2006, 06:39:36 AM durch Pufferfishy |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wysiwygfoto: |
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| zitierte Meldung: Hate to say it Pufferfishy but you contribute to these sites! |
Personally, I've no problems with other sites because I read their agreements before I joint them. And so far, 90 days to me is ok for me.
At this point, I don't intend to withdraw from DT cos I still very much like it here. Just a matter of the feeling of being "tied" down WITHOUT an option to say YES or NO makes me feel uncomfortable. I think it's more of principles, rather than anything else.
So far, I haven't been disabling my files unless I have firm reasons to do so and I haven't been selling my pics with full rights away.
Just stating my point of view and it's up to DT to decide the final end. This is just a business deal. If both parties don't agree with the terms or revised terms, negotiation will go on, but eventually, decision will have to be made, else business will no longer been done by both parties.
My 2 cents worth of reply... ;) |
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Canon Ixus 400, 500 & 700, Canon G7, Canon EOS 350D & 30D.
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 1032 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1868
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/17/2006, 17:18:23 PM durch Andresr |
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I have no problems with the 1 year commitment although I agree 365 days might be a bit too much.
Anyhow DT is just doing this to stop people from going exclusive elsewhere especially top contribuitors as this has happened in the past. The people who are worried in this thread are the ones who might have considered the option of exclusivity elsewhere so that's what DT wants, to have only photographers who will be here for a long time and they will have their answers on the 15th March.
I personally will not go exclusive anywhere else because I am not stupid enough to see my income cut by 35%.
My only worry would be if a client wanted to buy the rights of one of my images or wanted it on a special license which wouldn't mean pulling it from elsewhere.
Achilles already clarified that there can be exceptions on single images so I have no problem.
About designers being worried for an image not being here after 90 days so they can't buy it , come on! be serious! you have to pay $1 for an image, I even download images to play around with the design before I choose the right one! and I am not a big company I am just andresr who does freelancing on my home pc. I will not believe any company or even a single person would allow less than a $20 or $40 dollar budget for images on a particular design!
This prices are so cheap that I have had comments on images where people download them "just to see it". $0.50 cents or $1 means NOTHING compared to the price people pay for a whole design.
Edit to correct, not 75% but 35% (that's being diamond) |
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Canon 5D,
24-105mm L & 70-200mm L, 100mm Macro
Strobes, U...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 17397 | Gesamtverkäufe: 122798
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/17/2006, 07:15:40 AM durch Achilles - Mitglied ist ein Admin |
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We will continue to read your posts here even if we will not have the time to respond to each of you. Rest assured that your ideas are considered. One thing I want to ask you is to read my posts carefuly, because they contain almost all answers to your questions.
First of all this is not a request to be exclusive with us.
So you are not tied up at all, you have the freedom to upload on any site if you wish. It is restricting you to become exclusive with someone else than us, this is true. This is the ONLY thing that's discussed in this thread, so let's be clear about it.
Second, users that will post messages such as "if you do this, I will leave" should understand that while we are carefuly listening to your requests, we appreciate the same positive response. In the end you are free to do as you wish, but don't threaten us, because we are not forcing you. Two users that posted here disabled their files as they posted... They were new users. They are free to do so, but this is just a proof of my previous comments.
Now, let's get back to our subject: basically, what we want is to double your revenue. You will earn almost double then what you earn now, if not more.
Sales continue to grow as we speak, they seem unstoppable in the last months :) You will have a sale estimator before this is put into place, so you will see how much you will really earn with the new terms. This estimate will use real data from the site's database and will use your own account as reference, so it will be quite accurate.
This is a contract between two sides. Each of them should have an advantage. The contributors receive better revenue for the great work they do. In exchange, because we are not earning significantly more, we ask for the possibility to represent you on the market. It requires the effort of thinking where you want to be in 12 months since your last upload.
Three months is not possible, it doesn't help our strategy, so rather than accepting that, we would not even include a time limit. We will consider the idea of 6 months and see how this fits into our strategy. But again, I hope you realize that you cannot expect the agency and designers to double your revenue, without actually giving something back.
Someone pointed that this applies from the moment of your last upload. Yes, it does, but we are image-based not portfolio-based. A designer buys images without having restrictions to buy from the same photographer.
We proposed what we knew that is possible. We didn't say 24 months, have it portfolio based and renew it every 24 months. We knew it would be too much. But even if the industry is that dynamic, one can predict where he/she wants to be in 12 months from now.
So, while we love the praises for the new site, it is our job to represent our photographers how we think is best. Best means for all users, for the ones more commited to Dreamstime and for Dreamstime itself. We have a lot of talented photographers so we want to give them the possibility to involve more in photography, because this revenue matters. We know how many of you want to do this as a full time job, to upgrade your equipment, get extra lights, rent a studio or hire an assistant. With this strategy in place it will be possible.
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 2336 | Gesamtverkäufe: 15345
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/17/2006, 09:59:09 AM durch Stuartkey |
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^ Good post ^
I think that should help a lot of people think about things more calmly.
I don't understand why there is such concern about being restricted from going exclusive at a different site. DT offers a better package to everyone concerned than all the competitors anyway, so if I were considering being exclusive it would be at DT.
I accept that other people will be more successful with other agencies, but it seems that these same people are using all the agencies out there. Surely this shows that they are committed to 'playing the field' rather than becoming exclusive anywhere.
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 532 | Gesamtverkäufe: 4142
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/17/2006, 21:36:30 PM durch Franziskalang |
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Nikon D100, Tamron SP AF 27-75mm f/2.8 XR Di, Tamron SP AF 2...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 87 | Gesamtverkäufe: 990
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/18/2006, 13:47:38 PM durch Travelling-light |
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I'm really surprised that people think of knuckling under to a company which would "force" them to go exclusive. That company has said that will not happen, and I am in no way criticising them. But if they did, and you did go exclusive with them, what do you think your future would be?
I personally think 3 months warning is sufficient, but I think it would be good if there was some sort of physical warning of planned deletion on the site, for example an alert such as we get when we have a comment, which showed up on lightboxes as well as on the site. eg "This file will be deleted on *****( date)"
Thanks for the payrise, that is great news! |
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Pentax K10D from December 2006,
Canon 5D and 24-105L from N...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 8482
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Nachricht geschrieben um 02/18/2006, 03:59:25 AM durch Paulcowan |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Travelling-light: |
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| zitierte Meldung: I'm really surprised that people think of knuckling under to a company which would "force" them to go exclusive. That company has said that will not happen... |
This is what it's all about. It isn't really about Dreamstime at all. It's about people being afraid that they might lose a big percentage of their income if another company ever decided to take draconian action.
In a contrarian way I am quite happy about the 12 month clause because I have no desire to have all my eggs in one basket and from the perspective of the other company this would make it far, far harder for them to demand total exclusivity if they ever wanted to and they say they never will (though I can't help recalling the jocular rhyme about "the girls who say they never will but look as if they might"). |
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Canon EOS 5D Mk2, Canon EOS 5D, Canon 70-200 f2.8l zoom, 17-...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 3425 | Gesamtverkäufe: 14880
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/18/2006, 11:28:00 AM durch Wysiwygfoto |
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Paul, I have to agree with you with relation to the revenue. For me though, the issue doesn't exclusively revolve around earnings at other agencies. For me, the issue also revolves around the management of my work. There have been a lot of licensing options launched over the past week or so that allow for various uses of images that RF didn't previously allow. Concerns about how those images will be used have been brought up both in the message boards here, and at other places. From reading Achilles' post, DT is not only interested in offsetting the revenue, but they are also interested in protecting the intellectual rights of the contributor. I don't consider myself the best photographer, and my portfolio is small (so far) but I have to think about what happens in 5 years when one of those options may come back to haunt me? I haven't put up images of models as of yet. I will feel less reluctant to do that based on the license options DT is affording. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 919
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 02/18/2006, 13:53:56 PM durch Gvictoria |
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First of all i would like to thank Dreamstime for the wonderful job they have been doing with all this and the thought they have put into it. :)
Personally... i don't plan on going exclusive anywhere at anytime.... for me would be money lost, why would i want to lose money?
A few weeks ago i had actually gone through my portfolio and disabled images that weren't selling. The feedback i got was an email from one of the wonderful administrators helping me realize the potential that those images have now and in the future... so i put them back up again. I won't be doing that again!!!! So 12 months for me is not a long stretch for i know i'll still be here, even though it seems long for what it is but if that's the time frame then that's what i'll be happy with it.
Why would anyone want to upload pictures to make money and take them down right after? (i do ask myself that)
Maybe i just have a soft spot for DT since it was the first RF site i discovered and the one that gave me my first download ever that made me additcted to all this!!! DREAMSTIME you definately have trust in me... thanx |
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Canon camera bodies and lenses, Photoshop and sunshine
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 4169 | Gesamtverkäufe: 16889
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