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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/01/2006, 19:24:31 PM durch Dennist1 |
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True about the database, but rather than DLing the images, DT may have a nice little web page cooked up to do the work on. I doubt that the keymasters will need to enter it in the EXIF of the file.
Just my guess of course. |
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Canon Digital SLR, 30D, 300D. 17-85 F4; 70-200 2.8L, many ot...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 364 | Gesamtverkäufe: 799
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/01/2006, 20:40:33 PM durch Pixel-pizzazz |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Wysiwygfoto: |
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zitierte Meldung:
The 20 cents you will pay per keyworded image are deducted from your account before you will request the check. You are not uploading funds for this operation. So, you are just requesting the amount you made selling your images, minus the amount you paid for keyworded images. This final amount you must declare as an income.
Tano, I understand what you mean by netting the amounts as declared income, but there is still a need to provide the documentation related to the transaction. This is a required business practice in the U.S. under Generally Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP). If the agency is not willing to provide an invoice or some kind of report, it will be a burden to the photographer to break out the detail.
The issue is that as individuals, revenue and expenses are recognized on a cash basis. Earnings that the agency reports to a photographer on a Form 1099 should not be net of expenses - they should be gross earnings. Revenue is not recognized until the cash is in hand (just as what is reported on a 1099 is based on what the agency has paid to a contributor, not what their account balance is) and expenses are recognized when money is spent. I don't want to sound like I'm giving legal or tax advice but the expense can be recognized immediately while the revenue does not need to be recognized until cash is received. For some, the expense may occur months before they are eligible for a check request (especially if they are spending their earnings on keywording).
Under the model you present, a contributor could simply convert their earnings balance to credits and purchase images in order to avoid paying taxes on their income. That isn't good business and leaves some legal exposure to the contributor and the agency. |
Here in Canada, the GAAP requires that you report earnings and expenses as they accrue (when they are earned/purchased whether recieved/paid at the time, or not). I'm not giving accounting or legal advice (since I am neither a lawyer nor accountant) but cash accounting doesn't sound like a very good idea IMHO.
ETA: out of curiosity I looked up the Wiki for GAAP for the US and it appears that ACCRUAL not cash accounting is the accepted practice (which makes completed sense to me)
See the section on PRINCIPLES (the second point):
US GAAP WIKI |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 190 | Gesamtverkäufe: 3952
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/01/2006, 20:34:02 PM durch Wysiwygfoto |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pixel-pizzazz: |
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zitierte Meldung: Here in Canada, the GAAP requires that you report earnings and expenses as they accrue (when they are earned/purchased whether recieved/paid at the time, or not). I'm not giving accounting or legal advice (since I am neither a lawyer nor accountant) but cash accounting doesn't sound like a very good idea IMHO.
ETA: out of curiosity I looked up the Wiki for GAAP for the US and it appears that ACCRUAL not cash accounting is the accepted practice (which makes completed sense to me)
See the section on PRINCIPLES (the second point):
US GAAP WIKI |
Individuals report income on the cash basis of accounting in the U.S. The accrual method of accounting is something that is done by registered businesses and is something that is elected by companies (not individuals). There is no choice in the matter for individuals. Public companies traded on a stock exchange are required to report on the accrual basis. You could also refer to FASB 5 (Financial Accounting Standards Board) for more information. There are also rules surrounding "constructive income" under IRS regulations which could apply if you intentionally try to defer income by not taking a payout.
Unfortunately, my day job is to argue with tax auditors - 15 years of experience, 6 of which are in public accounting (I wish I could trade that with photography). :-) |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 919
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/01/2006, 21:21:40 PM durch Pixel-pizzazz |
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Glad I qualified my post with my lack of credentials :O
It must differ here for individuals because I am obliged to use the accrual method (and I file, through an accredited accountant, as an individual with self-employed earnings).
Thanks for the info. Here's to hoping you can someday: Quit your day job ;) |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 190 | Gesamtverkäufe: 3952
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/01/2006, 21:35:23 PM durch Wysiwygfoto |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pixel-pizzazz: |
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| zitierte Meldung: Here's to hoping you can someday: Quit your day job ;) |
The positive is you learn to argue and not take it personally. The negative is if you strike up a conversation with someone about what you do, it usually shuts down the conversation rather quickly. I think morticians have the same problem :-)
There are different tax laws around the world and understandably, there is no "cookie cutter" approach. By my suggestion, I was just trying to make things easier all the way around for everyone.
With relation to leaving the industry...I'm giving myself within the next 5 years - that's the plan and it's going to happen!
My request is simply to provide some sort of way to be able to provide a tracking mechanism for purchases - whether it be images, keywording services, or even purchases from the "DT Store" which will be opening soon (based on messages I have seen). I may be incorrect, but I don't think this is off-base compared to any other vendor on the internet (whether it be Amazon.com or any other retailer). |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 919
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/02/2006, 03:42:40 AM durch Antiode |
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English is not my first language , it's the fourth so I think that the idea is quite good . I have had good time suggesting words for some nice photos with only 10 keywords or so , because the photos were excellent but poorly described and that could mean less earnings for the photog. I'm not saying that with more keywords you sell more , they have to be accurated of course.
It's a good exercise !
What about a sort of game/test to find the best keymasters ? A selection of 10 different photos awaiting keywords could be use to evaluate the skills ... well my two cents!
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Nikon and Canon , to have the best results !
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 25 | Gesamtverkäufe: 204
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/03/2006, 03:48:55 AM durch Imagodigipix |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Achilles: |
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zitierte Meldung: ....Power to the people - Meet the Keymasters
In order to avoid fraud, the keywords populated by keymasters will not be visible on the image details page on the site for the first three months. ... |
The concept is great and useful and I am gonna take full advantage of it as I will give up keymentoring my own images and let the professional do it.
Related to the fraud: to keep a fair balance, I consider that keywords populated by image submitter should not be visible on the image details page on the site for the first three months neither - keymasters could fraud others too. It is a matter of balance, of fair play. Hope I made myself understood. |
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Happy Rebel 17-85mm & 50mm1.8 since the 17th of April 2006. ...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 507 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1252
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/03/2006, 06:28:45 AM durch Rabbitsfoot |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rabbitsfoot: |
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zitierte Meldung:
Well, unless I could do 100 per hour it doesn't seem worth it. Possibly developing a macro to use would do the trick. This would allow keywording to be done on a spreadsheet while looking at a contact sheet of images and then the macro could run a "cut and paste" function to update the data base. Having had a lot of experience in data base population, this would seem like the way to go. |
Achilles, can you clarify how the images would be presented to the keymasters? Would it be exactly as we keyword our own images now or could there be a more streamlined approach, perhaps something as I have suggested above? |
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Canon EOS 40D and Digital Rebel
lens:
canon ef 24m...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 377 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1452
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/03/2006, 07:02:36 AM durch Pinfoldphotos |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rabbitsfoot: |
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zitierte Meldung:
Well, unless I could do 100 per hour it doesn't seem worth it. Possibly developing a macro to use would do the trick. This would allow keywording to be done on a spreadsheet while looking at a contact sheet of images and then the macro could run a "cut and paste" function to update the data base. Having had a lot of experience in data base population, this would seem like the way to go. |
I suppose one factor which would determine whether or not it is worth your while would be how many images are available for keymentoring.
Just playing around with some figures may give some idea. Looking at the news archive it took 12 days to go from 700000 images to 730000 images online. This works out at 2500 per day. Now consider what percentage of contributors would be willing to pay for keymentoring. Lets pluck a figure of 10% out of the air (I actually think this may be optimistic). That would mean 250 images a day available for the keymasters.
So then we consider how many keymasters there are....I don't know how many are to be appointed, but lets base it on a figure of 10.
This means each keymaster has 25 images per day, equating to $5 per day.
Based on these (admittedly imaginary) figures, 100 per hour is a little optimistic in terms of workload available!
Ian.
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 172 | Gesamtverkäufe: 834
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/03/2006, 09:02:18 AM durch Achilles - Mitglied ist ein Admin |
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Imagodopix, yes, obviously the keywords will not be available on the image details either.
Rabbitsfoot, the workflow will be a little different than for the current approach. We will optimize it in order to ensure the keymasters have just the info they need, nothing else.
Pinfoldphotos, we expect less interest from photographers in the beginning, but once they see how easy it will be for them to submit we expect this number to grow considerably. The number of keymasters selected will be according to the community's needs. |
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Nikon D300 / Nikon N80 | Nikon 10.5mm f/2.8G ED AF DX Fishey...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 2336 | Gesamtverkäufe: 15199
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Nachricht bearbeitet um 11/03/2006, 10:36:24 AM durch Rabbitsfoot |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pinfoldphotos: |
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zitierte Meldung:
This means each keymaster has 25 images per day, equating to $5 per day.
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I'm not as concerned with how many need to be done as I am with how much time per image. If it takes 20 min to earn that $5. then that's not so bad. If it takes an hour, then that's not so good.
Also, Achilles, thanks for your reply. |
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Canon EOS 40D and Digital Rebel
lens:
canon ef 24m...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 377 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1452
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/03/2006, 11:45:50 AM durch Pinfoldphotos |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Rabbitsfoot: |
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zitierte Meldung:
I'm not as concerned with how many need to be done as I am with how much time per image. If it takes 20 min to earn that $5. then that's not so bad. If it takes an hour, then that's not so good.
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Yes, I see your point!
Achilles, some further thoughts I've had on the pay structure for this.....
I wondered if you had considered an alternative means of payment, based on the sales of the keyworded image rather than a flat rate per image.
For example, do not make an initial charge for the service to the contributor, but after keywording divert (say) 5% of any contributors earnings on that image to the account of the keymaster. Likewise, the keymaster is not payed for the initial keywording but gains 5% of the contributors earnings on that image.
I believe this would have several beneficial effects.
1. There is no initial outlay by the contributor, no sales no cost. This I believe would encourage the service to be used more than charging a flat rate on every single image.
2. The keymaster is rewarded for his/her efforts - in theory a better keyworded image will sell better. The flat rate payment does not reward better work. Income from this would also be steady and rise with time, in much the same way as building a portfolio does. (An option may be included here to limit the 5% payment to the first 6 months of sales)
3. The keymaster will not feel they are working against the clock in order to make money, but will find that taking more care and putting more effort in will reap the rewards in the end, effectively leading to better keyworded images.
4. The customer will find the image they want as more images will be keyworded more effectively.
I realise that such a payment scheme would be more complicated to set up, but I think it is worth considering........unless you've already done that!
Just a thought.
Ian. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 172 | Gesamtverkäufe: 834
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/05/2006, 12:18:21 PM durch Mckown |
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from quote- "Rabbitsfoot, it all depends on the keymaster. Considering you are already keywording your own images, I think that time is relevant for how you will be doing as a keymaster. Some people do a few images per hour, others can do a few tens." -- --
as with any job the more you do the faster you get. with a person keywording, many keywords are FRESH on a persons mind and will come up faster with each following file. Quite different from keywording a few files one day, and trying to think of words a few days later. so I think any one interested would do quite well as far as earnings.
Just my thoughts for those wondering how much they can make doing this job. |
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Nikon D300 , MB D10 Grip ,Nikon 18-55 VR Sigma 180 macro Ni...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 625 | Gesamtverkäufe: 2205
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/07/2006, 00:07:06 AM durch Imagodigipix |
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| Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mckown: |
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| zitierte Meldung: ...as with any job the more you do the faster you get. with a person keywording, many keywords are FRESH on a persons mind and will come up faster with each following file. Quite different from keywording a few files one day, and trying to think of words a few days later. so I think any one interested would do quite well as far as earnings.... |
In keywording the main skill is not to be creative but precise: one must provide accurate, relevant keywords for a certain picture. And the starting point is not inside his/her creativity but inside the picture. The keymaster should start with what is in the picture. If there is a ball in the picture, one does not have to be creative to put ball among keywords, but to see it and name it.
Keywording is first of all a question of being precise, not creative. |
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Happy Rebel 17-85mm & 50mm1.8 since the 17th of April 2006. ...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 507 | Gesamtverkäufe: 1252
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/07/2006, 14:15:42 PM durch Diane555 |
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I have to agree with Imagodigipix. I think precision is certainly important, so let's hope that all those latin plant names I've been adding are passing the final approval :) Not much point in having all this info if I can't put it to use somewhere. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 174
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/09/2006, 07:48:13 AM durch Shadow69 |
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Hi,
I've been doing some keymentoring when I get a few moments and a picture speaks to me... (apparently a couple of my suggestions got approved recently as I seem to have made 4 cents!).
Just wanted to note/suggest a couple of things:
- An indication which pictures I have already suggested key-words for would be nice. Or are we allowed to submit keywords for the same picture more than once?
- An indication of how long before your keywords will get reviewed/approved. I think this would be useful if there is an "official position" for KeyMentors... of course for casual/occasional Key Mentors, probably not worth the additional hassle as they aren't really going to be doing this with the aim of making money.
Just a couple of random thoughts that struck my disorganized cranium!
I might just try and sign-up for this :-)
Cheerio,
S. |
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Canon EOS 20D
Canon EOS 5D
Canon Powershot G6
Various Len...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 619 | Gesamtverkäufe: 718
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/09/2006, 09:26:48 AM durch Pinfoldphotos |
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Anyone any thoughts on the ideas I had earlier - 5 posts or so ago?
Ian. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 172 | Gesamtverkäufe: 834
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/09/2006, 10:03:12 AM durch Diane555 |
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Hey Shadow
I've found that if you click on a photo you've already submitted for there is a message down beside the keywords box that states "you've already submitted keywords for this image" or something like that. |
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/10/2006, 11:25:10 AM durch Dbajurin |
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Can anybody expain to me how to send my new uploads to the keymasters?
Thanx
D. |
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Olympus E3 and Olympus E510 various lenses, Canon 5D MarkII,...
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 2693 | Gesamtverkäufe: 2616
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Nachricht geschrieben um 11/10/2006, 13:40:52 PM durch Diane555 |
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Dbajurin, I don't think Dreamstime has this feature up and running quite yet. I know they are working on it. |
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Hochgeladene Bilder: 0 | Gesamtverkäufe: 174
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